Final Bitchfest
May. 6th, 2006 06:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hector_rashbaumAlright, this post is going to be the last time I bitch about that Jon interview. From here on out, what happens happens and people will think what they are going to think and I'm done publicly stressing about it.
1. Yes, I am fighting this so hard because it's David. If he'd said the same thing about Richie I'd probably be less upset. But I don't consider it hypocrisy on my part for a couple reasons.
a. I don't get excited about Richie contributing to albums, partly because I don't like him that much and partly because he hasn't gone a chunk of, like, 10 years without an album contribution. So even if Jon had been calm and reasonable when discussing it, I would have been disappointed.
b. If he'd said it about Richie, there'd be way more uproar from Bon Jovi fans. I wouldn't need to be so upset because there'd be a lot more people sharing the outrage.
2. It's not what he said, really, it's how he said it. Watch that chunk again, watch his body language, listen to his tone. If Jon had sat through the question and responded with:
"Well, here's the thing. David wanted to start contributing more to the albums, so we were planning to write together - plus, he kind of needed that outlet after his divorce, needed to work through it. Problem is, nothing was really working out. And I had this idea, this song idea, that I wasn't so sure about, and I bounced it off him, and he - if it weren't for him, it wouldn't be the song it wound up being, you know? So that - he didn't really write it, but he was very important to the early stages of the life of that song. He inspired it, he helped when I was stuck, but he didn't really write it. I wrote it."
(Not that that's how it went down. I don't know how it went down. But you see my point, see how much less infuriating that is?)
Then I would have stuck with "disappointment". But he got so so defensive about it, he was sending this very clear message of "why the holy Hell are you talking to me like David did something important? Are you retarded?" and that is what is irritating.
3. It's been said that we can't really judge his body language/tone/wording without knowing exatly what the interviewer asked. Fair point, except I can't think of a single way of asking about David's writing that would warrant that hasty and dismissive a response. Maybe the interviewer said "So is it true you're a talentless hack and the only listenable song on the entire album was written completely by David Bryan and you just sat there chewing on paint chips while he worked his genius?" In that case, yes, Jon's annoyance was justified.
4. Yes, Jon is technically the only one under contract to the label, and as such Bon Jovi is legally his backing band. I don't have a problem with that, it's Jon's prerogative to run the band that bears his name as he sees fit - especially considering he originally was going to have to replace them all, they weren't meant to be his permanent band. The problem I have is for 22 years he has acted as if they are one cohesive unit, not a singer and his backing musicians he lets write/sing sometimes. That is the image he wants to put forth. It isn't fair to argue that point about the contract when Jon himself has presented a very different picture. You can't ignore that level of hypocrisy just to keep him up on his pedestal. I have no problem with David/Richie/Tico/Hugh as a backing band for Jon if that was how he had presented it to begin with.
5. I am not baselessly bashing Jon. I'm calling him on saying something that, in my mind, crossed a line. If he would like to present himself as the oh-so-humble working class roots family man, he can't expect no backlash when he drops that image in such a harsh way. I don't give a shit what he wants to come across as. Maybe he wants us to think he was the world's premier tap-dancer when he was 11. It's when he randomly says "Tap dancing is for losers, I'd never do that shit" that it becomes a problem. Jon is human - a human with nice hair and a good voice and lots of charisma and who can write excellent songs, but human nonetheless - and should be treated as such. He is not perfect, he is not a God, he is a guy who tends to get a little full of himself sometimes.
6. And on that note, maybe it looks unfair of me to criticize him for misspeaking. That's not what I'm doing, really. He made a poor choice of words, a poor choice of tone, of body language. The problem isn't the poor choices, it's what's behind those choices. And Jon is normally a very guarded, very diplomatic interviewee. He manages to come across as honest, regardless of whether he is or not, but still control himself so he doesn't come across the way he doesn't want to come across. He is very aware of himself and himself-in-the-media, so for him to slip up this much is big. It isn't a simple miswording I'm crticizing him for, it's harboring an attitude that comes across as extremely disrespectful.
The bottom line is this: What Jon said was not okay. David is (or at least was) his friend, and to publicly discredit a friend in such a harsh way is unacceptable in someone I am supposed to look up to. Little by little, Jon has revealed to me through what he makes available to the public that yes, he is just a guy. And it's sad, because I've watched this guy I used to have immense, immense amounts of respect for slowly squander it away. I have almost no respect left for Jon Bon Jovi, and that makes me sad, because I tried, and because at least at some point, he deserved my respect.
I would be neither surprised nor particularly upset if David left the band right now. Partly because I'm vindictive, because I'd like to see people who tell me I shouldn't be upset about this because "it's a business and David gets that" see they're wrong, that business or not you can only treat someone a certain way for so long before they don't take it anymore. Because I'd like to see how Jon would handle that. Because I'd like to see David get his. And partly because it would restore my faith in people a little bit, this faith I've been losing lately at an alarming rate, because watching someone else say "you know what, that's not okay" would make me feel so much better.
And I might have no more David ever. He might nver do another album, he might drop out of what little limelight he gets, he might just be gone. But I'm at a point where I'd rather have no David than watch this amazingly talented person get shit on. It's gotten to the point where I'd rather give him up than have him spend any more time in Bon Jovi if things don't change a little.
One thing doesn't make sense to me, but it's a personal thing. I downloaded the leaked Japanese version of the album two days before it came out. Two listens in, "Last Cigarette" was my favorite. Keeping in mind the copy I downloaded didn't have track numbers, I didn't listen to it in any kind of order, when I bought Have A Nice Day and looked in the back of the booklet and saw "Jon Bon Jovi and David Bryan, Track 8" I knew exactly what song Track 8 would be. It has that David-ness about it, the same way I knew "Only Lonely" would wind up being a David song when I was first looking at the 7800 credits, the same way I wasn't surprised when Matt told me he wrote "The End". They all feel Davidy. So that gets me thinking that maybe he had such limited involvement on all of those, and he isn't as important as I want him to be, and that's sad.
It took Jon 30 seconds to shatter all my happy illusions. Well played, sir.
1. Yes, I am fighting this so hard because it's David. If he'd said the same thing about Richie I'd probably be less upset. But I don't consider it hypocrisy on my part for a couple reasons.
a. I don't get excited about Richie contributing to albums, partly because I don't like him that much and partly because he hasn't gone a chunk of, like, 10 years without an album contribution. So even if Jon had been calm and reasonable when discussing it, I would have been disappointed.
b. If he'd said it about Richie, there'd be way more uproar from Bon Jovi fans. I wouldn't need to be so upset because there'd be a lot more people sharing the outrage.
2. It's not what he said, really, it's how he said it. Watch that chunk again, watch his body language, listen to his tone. If Jon had sat through the question and responded with:
"Well, here's the thing. David wanted to start contributing more to the albums, so we were planning to write together - plus, he kind of needed that outlet after his divorce, needed to work through it. Problem is, nothing was really working out. And I had this idea, this song idea, that I wasn't so sure about, and I bounced it off him, and he - if it weren't for him, it wouldn't be the song it wound up being, you know? So that - he didn't really write it, but he was very important to the early stages of the life of that song. He inspired it, he helped when I was stuck, but he didn't really write it. I wrote it."
(Not that that's how it went down. I don't know how it went down. But you see my point, see how much less infuriating that is?)
Then I would have stuck with "disappointment". But he got so so defensive about it, he was sending this very clear message of "why the holy Hell are you talking to me like David did something important? Are you retarded?" and that is what is irritating.
3. It's been said that we can't really judge his body language/tone/wording without knowing exatly what the interviewer asked. Fair point, except I can't think of a single way of asking about David's writing that would warrant that hasty and dismissive a response. Maybe the interviewer said "So is it true you're a talentless hack and the only listenable song on the entire album was written completely by David Bryan and you just sat there chewing on paint chips while he worked his genius?" In that case, yes, Jon's annoyance was justified.
4. Yes, Jon is technically the only one under contract to the label, and as such Bon Jovi is legally his backing band. I don't have a problem with that, it's Jon's prerogative to run the band that bears his name as he sees fit - especially considering he originally was going to have to replace them all, they weren't meant to be his permanent band. The problem I have is for 22 years he has acted as if they are one cohesive unit, not a singer and his backing musicians he lets write/sing sometimes. That is the image he wants to put forth. It isn't fair to argue that point about the contract when Jon himself has presented a very different picture. You can't ignore that level of hypocrisy just to keep him up on his pedestal. I have no problem with David/Richie/Tico/Hugh as a backing band for Jon if that was how he had presented it to begin with.
5. I am not baselessly bashing Jon. I'm calling him on saying something that, in my mind, crossed a line. If he would like to present himself as the oh-so-humble working class roots family man, he can't expect no backlash when he drops that image in such a harsh way. I don't give a shit what he wants to come across as. Maybe he wants us to think he was the world's premier tap-dancer when he was 11. It's when he randomly says "Tap dancing is for losers, I'd never do that shit" that it becomes a problem. Jon is human - a human with nice hair and a good voice and lots of charisma and who can write excellent songs, but human nonetheless - and should be treated as such. He is not perfect, he is not a God, he is a guy who tends to get a little full of himself sometimes.
6. And on that note, maybe it looks unfair of me to criticize him for misspeaking. That's not what I'm doing, really. He made a poor choice of words, a poor choice of tone, of body language. The problem isn't the poor choices, it's what's behind those choices. And Jon is normally a very guarded, very diplomatic interviewee. He manages to come across as honest, regardless of whether he is or not, but still control himself so he doesn't come across the way he doesn't want to come across. He is very aware of himself and himself-in-the-media, so for him to slip up this much is big. It isn't a simple miswording I'm crticizing him for, it's harboring an attitude that comes across as extremely disrespectful.
The bottom line is this: What Jon said was not okay. David is (or at least was) his friend, and to publicly discredit a friend in such a harsh way is unacceptable in someone I am supposed to look up to. Little by little, Jon has revealed to me through what he makes available to the public that yes, he is just a guy. And it's sad, because I've watched this guy I used to have immense, immense amounts of respect for slowly squander it away. I have almost no respect left for Jon Bon Jovi, and that makes me sad, because I tried, and because at least at some point, he deserved my respect.
I would be neither surprised nor particularly upset if David left the band right now. Partly because I'm vindictive, because I'd like to see people who tell me I shouldn't be upset about this because "it's a business and David gets that" see they're wrong, that business or not you can only treat someone a certain way for so long before they don't take it anymore. Because I'd like to see how Jon would handle that. Because I'd like to see David get his. And partly because it would restore my faith in people a little bit, this faith I've been losing lately at an alarming rate, because watching someone else say "you know what, that's not okay" would make me feel so much better.
And I might have no more David ever. He might nver do another album, he might drop out of what little limelight he gets, he might just be gone. But I'm at a point where I'd rather have no David than watch this amazingly talented person get shit on. It's gotten to the point where I'd rather give him up than have him spend any more time in Bon Jovi if things don't change a little.
One thing doesn't make sense to me, but it's a personal thing. I downloaded the leaked Japanese version of the album two days before it came out. Two listens in, "Last Cigarette" was my favorite. Keeping in mind the copy I downloaded didn't have track numbers, I didn't listen to it in any kind of order, when I bought Have A Nice Day and looked in the back of the booklet and saw "Jon Bon Jovi and David Bryan, Track 8" I knew exactly what song Track 8 would be. It has that David-ness about it, the same way I knew "Only Lonely" would wind up being a David song when I was first looking at the 7800 credits, the same way I wasn't surprised when Matt told me he wrote "The End". They all feel Davidy. So that gets me thinking that maybe he had such limited involvement on all of those, and he isn't as important as I want him to be, and that's sad.
It took Jon 30 seconds to shatter all my happy illusions. Well played, sir.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-07 01:01 am (UTC)Rock on
Javier.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-07 01:20 am (UTC)Speaking of David/Richie, I hope he's helped some on Richie's album. I doubt it, I get the feeling Richie did this one largely on his own (ignoring the country people he worked with). But David writing with Richie is a wonderful wonderful thing.
And in the long run, this won't change how I feel about the songs. It's more a change of how I feel about Jon. It's just - it's a pain, because as much as I've done the "David is more important than he gets credit for" thing, I've always been able to feel like at the very least, the band think he's as important as I do. Jon doesn't obviously. It all boils down to one less person on my side.