hector_rashbaum | (no subject)

The comments in this ontd_feminism post are depressing the fuck out of me.

TL;DR version: Someone posted a piece from The Rotund talking about how the way some fat people justify their fat can be really harmful - that when people say "I'm fat, but it's okay because x, y, z", the implication is that people who can't claim x/y/z are still not "okay".

And y'know, that makes sense to me, because I'm not an "it's okay, x/y/z" person, I'm a Bad Fatty. And in FA/HAES spaces where the dominant discourse is "people shouldn't treat fat people like shit because not all of us are Bad Fatties", I come away feeling worse than I did before, because even the people who don't think fat is inherently wrong think there's something wrong with my fat.

But the commenters don't actually give a shit about that. They care about the post's wording, they care about their own right to frame the conversation in terms of bad fat vs good fat, they care about having to think before they talk. "This particular framing marginalizes people who the movement should theoretically be helping" is bullshit, because that's the way they want to frame it. There are people in the post saying "this perpetuation of 'good fat' versus 'bad fat'" makes me feel shitty, disgusting, unwelcome in FA/HAES spaces", but who gives a shit, because the Good Fatties want to keep talking that way.

No one was saying they can't feel however they want to feel about their bodies. No one was saying they can't think "my fat is okay because x/y/z". The call is to stop fucking saying it in FA/HAES spaces, because it marginalizes other fat people. But who gives a fuck, right? The fat people being marginalized are Bad.

I am so fucking sick of this bullshit. I've been told by other gay people I'm a Bad Lesbian, because I don't just quietly assimilate. I've been told by other women I'm a Bad Woman, because I'm one of Those Feminists, you know, the bad kind who look for sexism everywhere and make Nice Men feel bad. And now I don't just have to deal with being a Bad Fatty, I get to be a Worse Fatty because I'm not just the kind of fat person whose health skinny people are right to be ~concerned about, but I make the Good Fatties feel bad for being Good.

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From:

th_esaurus

This is not directly related, but all the good fat/bad fat arguing right now made me consider it. So, apparently, it's okay to hate on or pity people who eat a lot on the grounds of health.

Does that mean I can yell abuse at drivers for risking their lives and other people's lives every single day?

Of course it fucking doesn't. The idea is ridiculous. But it's still okay to rag on other people's health if their supposed unhealthiness is somehow offensive to you...? Oh okay then.

(I also saw a news piece recently about a big chain store stocking larger sizes of kids' school clothes, and people were outraged because it 'normalised' obesity in children. BECAUSE OF COURSE IT MAKES MUCH MORE SENSE FOR BIG KIDS TO GO TO SCHOOL NAKED.

jfc people.)

hector_rashbaum

The "but your heeeeealth" argument makes SO LITTLE SENSE to me because even IF my health was anybody else's business, there are so many other things I do that are so much worse for me that no one ever comments on.

I will believe the world is concerned about my health when it is as difficult for me to buy a pack of cigarettes as it is to buy a well-made fashionable outfit in my size.

saystheheart

Ugh, I hate when people purposefully reframe discussions in a way that allows them to ignore the content of something.

allyndra

people shouldn't treat fat people like shit because not all of us are Bad Fatties

Yuck. How about people shouldn't treat fat people like shit because you just shouldn't treat people like shit.

I get told by the media and by people around me, implicitly and explicitly, that being fat means that I'm lazy, slovenly, uncontrolled, sexless, loveless, unattractive, unhealthy, and possibly stupid. And that is all total bull (aside from the slovenly part; I'm super messy), and I'm getting really sick of feling guilty about the fact that I'm okay with being fat. The fact that fat-positive places and people get in on the shaming is incredibly wrong.

From: (Anonymous)

So, we talked the other night and you directed me to that community, right? That post got my attention, and so did the comments. Damn, I can't even describe how I felt reading all of those threads, but you've pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Also? The Bad Feminist/Lesbian/Fatty thing really gets my goat. Maybe I'm just new to the whole thing, but the people saying that others are a Bad This or a Bad That or not Whatever Enough come across as sad individuals spewing elitist bullshit, and it pisses me off.

-artmusicsoul

The "bad [x]" thing is generally members of an underprivileged group grasping for acceptance/equality. I can understand the impulse - if you think people actually mean they're fine with homosexuality if it's not "shoved in their face", then it's kind of logical to think "well, then, if I can get other gays to stop flaunting it, we'll get treated equally :DDDD". It's a flawed way of thinking for a whole bunch of reasons, and it's a super douchey attitude to put forward, but I get the impulse.

Oh yes, I understand the impulse, but to turn it into an attack on people who have some of the same issues as you (and don't mean YOU, just people in general) and who are your fellow (insert marginalized group here) is a crappy thing to do. And I also have this problem with people telling me, "Okay, people won't care if you're gay as long as you assimilate into heterosexual society!" Then that gets into "what is gay society, what is straight society?" which I'll fully admit to not knowing enough about to be comfortable to write about it in-depth.

Just...god. I'm noticing how pervasive shit is and I sit and think, "Is it going to far to question X? Is it going too far to speak up and say, 'Hey, doing or saying X is not okay, cut that shit out.'? I'm still new to understanding priviledge, oppresion of different, groups, etc. so I apologize if this seems a little all-over-the-place.

also HERPADERP that ^ was artmusicsoul again.